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Corporatism
Written by Xenu   
Monday, 18 April 2011 16:16

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cor·po·rat·ism (noun, /ˈkôrp(ə)rəˌtizəm/): The control of a state or organization by large interest groups.


 


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Last Updated on Wednesday, 18 January 2012 12:42
 

Comments  

 
0 #13 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 19:25
But I'm glad to see we're not essentially 'opposed' but maybe coming at the same issue from two different directions. I think no matter how much we should be wary of groups like the ones you mentioned, we should be comforted that nothing as gotten so bad as to be like what's going on abroad. Well, at least not yet! :lol: 8) :o
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0 #12 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 19:21
There's a big difference between saying that there are fascist elements in the USA (and few would/could deny that) and saying we are fascist. If you want to say there are fascists elements, I would agree with that.

I would also say I disagree with any kind of patriotism/nationalism, regardless of its democracy, and I would disagree with orthodox churches (not just judaism or eastern christianity), as I think natural affection for one's culture and land and natural spirituality are retarded by these into forces that can be fascistic.

Eco's point is that none of the things he lists in 1995 constitute fascism in itself; it's how they are integrated into a state apparatus. That is the difference here: yes, we might have fascists, but they are not in control and they are meeting resistance AND (most importantly) the game is rigged against them in the long run. (I believe this is essentially Chomsky's point on American freedom.)
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0 #11 Christie Ward 2011-04-20 19:10
Quoting Jason Cullen:
Sorry, NKorea is fascist; America is not.


We're talking past one another. All of these examples of fascism, but you are talking about degree.

America has not become a totalitarian state, but we're definitely tipping towards a model of fascism. And if you read the stuff put out by Dominionists, they are preaching a full on theocratic fascism.

I'm way out left myself, and it really concerns me how much the Bush administration and the current GOP, in combination with the SCOTUS Citizens United case have pushed us towards out-and-out fascism.

Read my article. Every assertion I make is linked to a news article. Read it, check the articles, then say whether you agree with my assessment.
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-1 #10 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 18:50
"Are you familiar with the recent events in Wisconsin? Are you aware of a place called Benton Harbor? Have you noticed the GOP's War on Women?

First, I am in Wisconsin and I went to High School with Paul Ryan. I am quite familiar with the events there, and the GOP in WI. As much as I strongly disagree with Scott Walker and Ryan, they are not fascists. If you think they are, you really need to travel and see what a strong-arm government looks like. Some friends and I sneaked into the Wisconsin Senate and had an 'interview' with police, but nothing happened to anyone I know, unlike my activist friends in Saudi Arabia and China, where I usually work.

"I read the Eco article in full. He is talking about EXACTLY the same points that I and Lawrence W. Britt cover."

And yet Eco would never call Wisconsin or the US fascist states. I know, I've met the guy. He's as leftist as I am.

Sorry, NKorea is fascist; America is not.
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0 #9 Christie Ward 2011-04-20 18:32
Quoting Jason Cullen:
You say I haven't read your article; well, why would I? Why not make your argument here instead of saying 'I disagree'.


Because the comments don't allow enough characters to reproduce the essay. It develops each of the points at length and gives cited examples of how they're happening in America today.

Quoting Jason Cullen:
Chomsky points out that the US has many more freedoms than even some democratic nations...


Are you familiar with the recent events in Wisconsin? Are you aware of a place called Benton Harbor? Have you noticed the GOP's War on Women?

Quoting Jason Cullen:
...But 'fascism' isn't correct. PS Read the Eco article.


I must respectfully continue to disagree. I read the Eco article in full. He is talking about EXACTLY the same points that I and Lawrence W. Britt cover.

If you refuse to read my essay, there's really no way to debate it with you.
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-1 #8 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 17:03
Laurence W. Britt. "Facism Anyone?: Free Inquiry Magazine 22:2 (15 July 2003).

In brief:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
...etc.

Your 14 points could be thrown at any nation. Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy did not mix religion with their power, and PR China controls religion. The claims of cronyism, corruption, sexism, and human rights abuses could be directed at any western democracy on the planet. These problems (and problems they are) are not indicative of a fascist state. They blur distinctions and make North Korea and France the same kind of system. Who are we going to call non-fascist: Costa Rica and nobody else? Everything you list in your 14 points could have been directed at the UK in WWII, and the UK was clearly different than Germany or Italy or Japan.
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-1 #7 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 16:57
Quoting Christie Ward:
Quoting Jason Cullen:
...I also do not see how the US government in any way resembles autocratic states....


Jason, I'm with Akita on why we need to use correct terms. Based on your comments, I'm pretty sure you have not read my essay at gunnora.livejournal.com/.../ (also available on Facebook at facebook.com/.../... )


Like Akita, you haven't told me anything. You say I haven't read your article; well, why would I? Why not make your argument here instead of saying 'I disagree'. Chomsky points out that the US has many more freedoms than even some democratic nations, and more than soft dictatorships like PR China and Singapore. If the US is fascist, what do you call PR China? You can't say they are remotely similar. If you want to criticize aspects of it, fine. But 'fascism' isn't correct. PS Read the Eco article.
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0 #6 Christie Ward 2011-04-20 13:06
To continue, Lawrence W. Britt enumerated the major hallmarks of a fascist regime in the following essay: Laurence W. Britt. "Facism Anyone?: Free Inquiry Magazine 22:2 (15 July 2003).

In brief:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.
5. Rampant sexism.
6. A controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.
9. Power of corporations protected.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.

My essay takes each of these points and illustrates how they are operating today in America.
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0 #5 Christie Ward 2011-04-20 13:05
Quoting Jason Cullen:
...I also do not see how the US government in any way resembles autocratic states....


Jason, I'm with Akita on why we need to use correct terms. Based on your comments, I'm pretty sure you have not read my essay at gunnora.livejournal.com/.../ (also available on Facebook at facebook.com/.../... )
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-1 #4 Jason Cullen 2011-04-20 12:57
Quoting Akita Mata:
Jason, your attempt at justification for this vague term is not commendable.
The proper term for the politico-social conditions in the US at this stage is fascism. The use of the proper term helps empower debate.

Akita, I have made an argument. You have not; you have merely asserted that the fascism is the 'proper term'. Simply saying "not it's not" doesn't empower any debate at all.

I find Umberto Eco's discussion of the word "fascism" in European languages useful (pegc.us/.../eco_ur-fascism.pdf); I also do not see how the US government in any way resembles autocratic states. It doesn't even come close to 'soft dictatorships' such as Singapore or PR China. Unless you can explain that, you're just botching the word and not doing anything for debate.
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